looking for permission to release this kitbash

[Starforce2]

[Wicked Zombie]

Aight, I'll bite. That kitbash can be released once these ships are taken off of BCFiles since they weren't supposed to be there in the first place:

Mnemosyne
Vanquisher
Relentless
Defiant
Sorcerer
Warlock
Avenger
Deathwing
Warhammer
Demonhawk

This message brought to you by your friendly neighborhood undead dictator...

[Starforce2]

lol. Not happenin. Unless ofcourse you want to stop chaning links and acting like a child...

[Atolm]

starforce2 said:

lol. Not happenin. Unless ofcourse you want to stop chaning links and acting like a child...

How can he be acting like a child if its HIS stuff...he is free to whatever he wants with HIS stuff...thats like somebody telling you you cannot spend YOUR money or telling you what to buy...what needs to happen here, is that you need to Listen to WZ about what he wants to happen with HIS stuff.
You know me SF, if you ask you will usually get what you ask for...but if I don't want something to happen or if I said ok its time to pull the plug...then it is by all means MY right to do so...
In anycase just remove them from BC files...Its not like you cannot get a copy of the this...just do it by the means that the Owner wants....

[Chris Johnson]

Starforce, it's usually you who acts like a child. It's sad to see such hypocrisy coming from you like that, yet not suprising; accusing others of behaviour you display. You want this, you want that for BC, you want to have power so you control a website tighter than most other websites, and so on and so forth. Heck, you only see Star Trek for its ships and battles, am I right?

Atolm's right: It's WZ's stuff, he can do what he wants with it. If you don't like it, go ahead and disappear from the ST gaming community.

That's all I have to say, I'll refrain from any further replies.

[CLS]

Sense some of those ships are original creations by Wicked Zombie. It should be more then legal for him to sue Starforce for ten times he's actually worth for not removing them.

[Atolm]

Alright now this has gotten a tad nuts....Nobody is talking about sueing ot taking up legal ramifications, or telling people that they cannot/should not be involved in a forum/community
This is not to be a war zone....All it is, is simply to ask for permission to convert a ship and release it ...and to remove the ships from where the author does not want them
I am sure that if WZ wanted to take a legal action he could...but we are all adults here and I am sure that SF will just abide by WZ's wishes.

So SF, lets just get this nonsense over with..and just remove the models from BCU,
so that more productive work can get done.
Thanks

[Wicked Zombie]

I'll let others decide who is acting like a child as tossing weak insults at each other over a public forum is somewhat childish in and of itself. I specifically and directly said I didn't want those particular ships (note, just those, not all) posted on another site. However, you went and linked directly to the files on my site's server, ignoring any civilized attempts otherwise. Those file changes ceased months ago, and were in fact, not primarily related to this. Regardless, I can do what I want to my own files on my own site and their links whenever I see fit. All of which is rather moot since the files were copied over to another directory and hotlinked to there without my knowledge, circumventing my site completely. Just because it's a BC mod doesn't default it to being posted on BCFiles or any other site for that matter. The same goes for SFC mods and Armada mods and so on.

You and others aren't privy to certain details regarding my ships so any tyrannical and unusual activity related to them can't always be easily explained. All I ever said was not to post the files, a simple and respectful request regarding my own ships. Instead, you had to turn it into a big hubbub and treat this as some sort of tug-of-war. In the end, those are my ships and my property, and I find it ridiculous to have to argue over such a pointless situation that can be easily solved by removing (or never posting to begin with) a simple little zip file.

To hail from a community and site that makes such a big point of honoring the modders and policing any thefts, credit errors, or misuses, this stands in heavy contrast. Clearly, the modders themselves aren't the center of any respect to some people, and the ships, mods, and creations they make are what really matters to these same few individuals...

I'm not trying to lay blame or spark some sort of community vs. community debate, all I'm simply doing is trying to correct a little problem that uselessly became a big one. If this can't be settled peacefully with you, then I'll take it up with someone else.

On a semi-related note, I apologize for bringing that kitbasher's model into my private little war. As a matter of fact, it was (and is) being converted and finalized before I even posted any of this.

[Reverend]

To call that Nebula bash the Uss Dita is the equivalent of calling a spherical monitor the USS Betty Page.... waste of a good name! Dita Von Teese is one of the most interesting people of our time. Perverts. Derelicts.

LOL just kidding

.... about the derelicts and perverts part at least

[RogueNineCH]

starforce2 said:

lol. Not happenin. Unless ofcourse you want to stop chaning links and acting like a child...

starforce2

It is WZ's right to request that his files not be posted or hotlinked to by another site. He has spent alot of time bringing great ships to the SFC community and the BC community as well. It's not right what you're doing, and it's only going to cause strife in both communities needlessly.

I'm surprised that you even had the gall to ask his premission when you knew how he felt about what you were doing in the first place. Do the right thing and respect WZ's wishes. Take those ships down.

[Wicked Zombie]

There's no point in trying to appeal, as he obviously isn't going to listen. The mere fact that nothing's changed after all these months is proof enough. Not to mention I stopped renaming files and "acting like a child" (isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?) months ago, and that still hasn't resulted in the outcome he tactlessly mentioned above.

At the least, this will tarnish his (and possibly BCFiles') reputation, and people may think twice about having their work posted there. Not that it would matter, as the ships would doubtlessly end up on the site anyway, whether the author wanted them there or not...

[RogueNineCH]

Of course it wasn't going to change his mind, but it doesn't hurt to pile it on.

[Chris Johnson]

I'm going to take back the "refraining from posting" part temporarily. Just so you know, the U.S.S. Dita Von Teese kitbash has been released. Just incase anyone here didn't know and it was done behind people's backs or something.

Now I'll refrain from further posting on this. At least publically.

[Centurus]

I'm glad someone else broke the silence on it. I sure as hell didn't want to say anything for fear of getting into something that could get ugly.

Anyway, what will happen next? From what I've been told, the ships that were requested to be taken down from BCFiles have yet to be taken down, so I hate to know what's going to happen next.

[Starforce2]

Ok, you know what. This is the deal. at one time I approached wz to port his awsome work to BC. Despite the fact that I sometimes give him and moon shit about the ammount of textures they use the work is still great. I aint dumb. However, after I converted a bunch and started work on several, suddenly he changes his permission so that nothing can be hosted on BCfiles making all the work I had done, very time consuming I might add, go to waste. Anything I mod I want on BCfiles where it will be seen, and I take such a waste of my time, especialy as a result of things not directly related to me, personaly. I asked permission for each and every ship I took from drs. I'm being punished for someone elses deeds. No stolen WZ propery ever made it to BCfiles so far as I know or wasn't told of any, and would have easily noticed misscredits, same as how I catch a p81 plagerist about once every 2 months. As far as I know, the only one at the time doing anything with wz work (related to BC anyways) was me and zombie Zan, and if he stole stuff I am sure he wouldn't still be allowed to use it so wtf has BC ever done to you? Unlike SFC, BC is a highly centralised community. People look to BCfiles for the releases, not other places unlike sfc, where people go to every modders site for updates and it's a tradition for most to have their own yards. So when WZ said he wanted to host his own files, I got the system working for the old off site mirror setting again, that way we could both have what we felt was best. WZ could host the BC coversions, and BCfiles would post a few pix and a description and link to WZ shipyard. OFcourse I had told him of this, and 2 to 3 times the links where changed so a page with some smart ass remark was displayed. SO finaly I direct linked the files just to piss him off. WHen those changed, I uploaded the affected file to a ftp that I was given for my own use and removed the files from his control. The simple fact is I did not direct link your files originaly. I linked to your shipyard only, to the BC section of it anyways. Only after you put smart ass remarks against us for, btw, respecting your wishes to host them lol...All we were doing was showcaseing, advertising your work and sending people to your site, which BTW, I helped you get. Even uploaded it, and that was how you repay me?

chrisjohnson said:

Heck, you only see Star Trek for its ships and battles, am I right?

LOL. You wish to talk hypocricy? The principle of startrek is cooperation for the good of all, working together ect, which is something I try my best to promote between SFC and BC communities, by trying to get the modelers of both to share their work between them. I don't see a lick of it here. More like the exact opposite. We went out of our way to have the best of both worlds, to have WZ's work visable on the hub where 90% of the community will see it while allowing WZ to host the files himself, by linking to the BC shipyard index page (not the directory or the files, but the actual yard where the pix and polycounts and credits are) and instead we get instulted for it. (this was before I got pissed @wz's rude comments and direct linked the files) So..go take your startrek ideals speech and..I dunno..spank your Johnson with it, Chrissy-boy.

Now ya'll know where I'm comming from. It's not an issue of rights. It's an issue of the BC community, or maybe just bcfiles, dunno which, being treated unfairly and rudely by Wz for reasons he gives as "because i don't care" or "because I can" , and I'm not going to put up with that from anyone, and neither should anyone else, regardless of how talented the person is. Or, maybe, you're all just in it for the ships and battles too? The sprit of Startrek my ass. I seem to be the only one standing up and saying enough of this.


Now, I do have a little compromise in mind, and I aint askin much, if ya willing willing to hear it, Wz (I'll discuss it privatley with you if nessecary) but it can end this whole thing right now and make everyone happy.

[Wicked Zombie]

First of all, you never explicitly asked permission for any of those conversions. You simply started on them without even giving me a heads-up and then coming in later and asking my input. At the time, I didn't mind because individuals (unrelated to this) had yet to butcher that privilege. After that, I changed my mind and wanted to avoid anymore cross-community problems altogether and not have anything ported at all. Long story short, that was resolved and things went back to normal, and not long after the ships started being ported again.

You spent a year toying around with conversions but nothing ever came of it. I don't know how much work you put into anything so I don't know how much time and effort was supposedly wasted. Regardless, someone else ported the ships on their own time with their own effort so any involvement from you or anyone else was nullified. These ships aren't bartering chips, they aren't sources to gain prestige or attention, or further one's own goals or popularity. If that were the case, there'd be few, if any, people still modding because that's a fruitless venture.

You entertained the idea of hotlinking/referencing/showcasing/whatever those files on BCFiles. You never outright said you were going to do that and you certainly never asked me (until long after you'd done it). In fact, when you mentioned that idea, I said I didn't want them posted or linked on any other site - period. However, they were linked anyway which pretty much struck me as ignoring me completely. I also stated outright I didn't care about having my work showcased or advertised, because if I did, none of this would even be an issue. That also, was ignored. I'm not in this for attention, or profit, or popularity, or even ego - it's just a nice, (normally) quiet way to waste my time.

That little "smartass remark" wasn't about BCFiles, as I had repeatedly stated...which of course, was ignored. BC hasn't done anything to me, nor has any other community. In case it was missed, I'll point out once more that there are a lot of my ships on other sites, including BCFiles so any "I hate BC" statements don't fly.

The fact that seems to keep slipping past some people is that I'm not concerned about the same petty details most others are - it's a whole other set of petty details. One of which boils down to simple respect.

When people start doing whatever they want with other people's work, in direct contrast to even their own pre-established rules and standards, and seemingly ignoring an individual's outright explicit wishes, that pretty much ruins things for me. It's disrespectful, it's arrogant, and it's insulting.

Now, contrary to appearances, I am not angry and I am not vengeful. The core purpose of the above posts was to get both of us back to the table. All I ever asked was for those particular ships not to be posted on another site. How it ever got way off into the depths of pointlessness, I have no idea, but that doesn't matter.

I admit, I made a mistake in not being absolutely, blatantly, and un-debatably clear about every single point. However, it isn't all on me as I was sporadically contacted about details, and in some cases, not even informed or asked at all.

The fact of the whole matter is, a little warning, clarity, and clear communication from *everyone* ahead of time would benefit both sides and avoid such pointless situations.